Curse

Bryant Again · Mar 01, 2008, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

In the end, does it really matter?

First off, relating the changes of Guild Wars to that of a biological environment(?) is intensely illogical - mainly in the sense that Guild Wars is a product. If they make the "atmosphere" rather unenjoyable, do you think people will play and buy this game?

And yes it does matter. If ANet wants more purchases for GW2 they'll have to leave a good taste in the players' memory. An average customer is unlikely to purchase a sequel to a game they didn't like.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Of course, I would like to point out, if changes made to Guild Wars would appear to be jumping the shark for any of you, wouldn't you be better off without playing this game?

They could, but I'm sure they'd like to know why ANet turned a game they enjoyed into a game they hated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

But the thing that I need to ask myself is - are we just selfish little RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs?
Because PvE is pretty much an single player game. Thus actions taken outside of one's instance have NO influence on MY game.
Why the problem then?

Might as well, since we're going there now: I have a multitude of problems with UB, as seen here.

That said, everyone's game is affected in numerous ways. What may not affect you may very well affect someone else and vice versa. A good example of this is bots: They don't have any affect on my gameplay, so why are they getting banned?

And I see you reading this, Turtle!!! Give my your Steam!1!

Master Knightfall · Mar 01, 2008, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Bots don't affect me in a way that I think about it. If you don't sell to other people and you don't care what the Joneses have then bots don't do anything to the game as a whole. I've never cared about bots or duping or any of that. I get everything I get myself, I don't go buying it as I think that just takes away from the fun of the adventure and the game. Since everything in GW is about vanity in the first place and not power I don't see what the big deal is with bots. What do you need money for anyway? If you play the game like it should be play all you need is one set of maxed out gear (the 1500gp armor and a couple of maxed out weapons and offhands) and that's all you need to go get other things you might like to have. At least when I do get something that LOOKS different I know that I got it myself and I didn't buy it from someone else or buy gold online to buy it. That's just stupid to me that some people are soo silly about a game and their rank in the game or standing that they will stoop to the stupidity of buying gold online so they can buy an item in the game. lol That has to be the most stupid ignorant dumb imbicile person in the whole world and someone with a real inferiority complex in the real world. Probably fat and ugly too. lol

Tijger · Mar 01, 2008, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

Before elitism set in was the best of times. They never should have had those $100,000 tournaments as that just caused more elitism beyond what it should have ever been. PVP players act as though PVE players should have no input on balance of skills because PVE players don't PVP. That's part of the elitism that needs to go and what was the shark moment of GW. HA used to be a FFA and fun and everybody grouped with everybody. Now if you don't have rank ? (what is it now 6? lol) the rest look down upon you forgetting that they were ZERO rank at one time begging and QQing and groveling to be able to get in a group. So, this is the problem with SKILL > TIME, you get elitists on the SKILL side just like you do on the TIME side so really they should have EQUAL value in the game so there should be BOTH in the game TIME grinds and SKILL arenas.

Dude, the game had (skill)elitism when I started playing it, that was July 2005.

Grind is something players wanted, the GWG archives can very likely enlighten you there with the endless threads of "I've finished XYZ, what else is there to do!" from the past years.

As for 'jumping the shark', every game at some point will 'jump the shark', the nice thing about GW is that you can leave it for months, wont cost you a dime and then go back to playing it and perhaps enjoy it again *shrug*

DivineEnvoy · Mar 01, 2008, 11:35 AM // 11:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

First off, relating the changes of Guild Wars to that of a biological environment(?) is intensely illogical - mainly in the sense that Guild Wars is a product.

Despite the fact Guild Wars is just a game, we do have a community of players here, and certainly, there is an environment as many players are playing the game. This environment can be both external and internal. Internal-wise, I would say it's more or less the aspect of the lore, how in-game enviornment can be changed as we travel between towns or based on storyline. External-wise, it goes from PvP balances to additional releases of campaigns, and how these features and changes influence our players is what I call as an external environment. In that sense, I find it logical to relate many features and changes of this atmosphere to the biological atmosphere we have in real life. Perhaps it can contribute to the discussion as well. Although I do understand how you do not share the same perspective of this relevance, it is certainly offending to be insulted that my theory is illogical simply because you do not share the same opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

If they make the "atmosphere" rather unenjoyable, do you think people will play and buy this game?

In this perspective, I would like to point out just because you would find a certain atmosphere to be unpleasant, other people may have a different opinion. In saying this, I do not know what evolution or what cosmic-authority has planned to do with which species are going to extinct next, but I am certain about one thing: Anet wishes to please the majority of the population. I guess either of us are able to agree with each other's definition of what a majority is, but, nonetheless, as the sales of Guild Wars have reached 5 millions, are you sure that Anet is not pleasing the majority of the population?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

And yes it does matter. If ANet wants more purchases for GW2 they'll have to leave a good taste in the players' memory. An average customer is unlikely to purchase a sequel to a game they didn't like.

That question was not directed to Anet, but to the players who are upset about the changes here and there. We should also zoom-out our perspective. In saying this, I would like to point out, within one human's lifespan, this human will go through being giving birth to, growing up and eventually becoming old, experiencing sickness and in the end, dying. In this case, this human will spend some of his lifespan being miserable about a video game, and even spending time ranting about the changes he can't adjust to. It is a lot worse if nothing will be changed to satisfy his needs. In that sense, in the end when this human is going to die, did it really matter to experience this misery?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

They could, but I'm sure they'd like to know why ANet turned a game they enjoyed into a game they hated.

Again, other people have different opinions to what they enjoy and what they hate. Knowing this, not everyone would agree with the statement, Anet has turned a game people enjoyed into a game people hate. Relevantly, I would like to point out, this question contains an enthymeme, which certain premisses have not been stated explicitly. In short, if Anet had responded to this question, they would've admit to the fact that they made a game people enjoyed into a game people hate; that would be a bad choice to make. Consequently, Anet will not make any responses to these questions, and it will be rather pointless to keep demanding this. Also, I would like to point out, most gaming companies would avoid direct conflicts or confrontations that may damage their image to the public; if you still insist on doing so, good luck.

Also, I have noticed from your other posts that you have moved onto World of Warcraft. I am still uncertain whether you would still play Guild Wars at all. This is no more than a speculation nevertheless, but here is question I would like to ask.
Will you really come back and spend more time on Guild Wars if the changes you demanded have been implemented?
Of course, by asking this, I'm not demanding to know a truthful answer from you, but instead, I would like to point out that by moving toward to World of Warcraft, it basically shows that you are taking a step forward. And so, coming back here shows that you are unable to let go of Guild Wars, although I noticed you are in favor of World of Warcraft. Even though Guild Wars may not be what it used to be at this point, it is still possible to contribute efforts into making the old days possible, but seeing how you have detached from Guild Wars to that extent, it seems that there are more than these changes that have affected your gameplay of Guild Wars, perhaps the game became boring for you?
With all these said, I do not expect answers from the questions I asked as I do not have any uses of them.

RiKio · Mar 01, 2008, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Well, I think GW jumped the shark ( what a silly expression) when e-peens where added to the game. Thats the whole problem. And the grinding titles too.

Solas · Mar 01, 2008, 11:39 AM // 11:39

over time game exp. deteriates a bit, you may need to take a break fro mit for a while or w/e

i think that after nf when they said they'd work on GW2 then there was a fframe of 2 years were no major new content would arrive.

and there may be other topics about this already.

so really GW is as good to me as always, i just take breaks nwo and again

enter_the_zone · Mar 01, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiKio

Well, I think GW jumped the shark ( what a silly expression) when e-peens where added to the game. Thats the whole problem. And the grinding titles too.

From wikipedia, since I'm too lazy to type it myself. Describes the origin of the phrase "jumped the shark".

Quote:

The term jumping the shark alludes to a specific scene in a 1977 episode of the TV series Happy Days when the popular character Arthur "Fonzie" Fonzarelli jumps over a shark while water skiing. The scene was so preposterous that many believed it to be an ill-conceived attempt at reviving the declining ratings of the flagging show. Since then, the phrase has become a colloquialism used by U.S. TV critics and fans to denote the point at which the characters or plot of a TV series veer into a ridiculous, out-of-the-ordinary storyline.

And yeah, GW jumped the shark ages ago, about the time the first green weapons were added, give or take.

Numa Pompilius · Mar 01, 2008, 11:58 AM // 11:58

While I'm not happy about the direction in which GW is evolving, GW has never jumped the shark.

I'm increasingly thinking that Lost may have, though.

Oh, and there's never been a time when elitism wasn't rampant in GW. There was a time when people in general and ANet in particular didn't equate PvE = farming, though.

Bryant Again · Mar 01, 2008, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

In that sense, I find it logical to relate many features and changes of this atmosphere to the biological atmosphere we have in real life.

Except with one glaring difference that changes the comparison completely: In a habitat you have no choice but to adapt if you want to thrive. With a game, you have many choices - the most pivotal of them is not playing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

In this perspective, I would like to point out just because you would find a certain atmosphere to be unpleasant, other people may have a different opinion.

You don't need to point anything out. It's the glaring, obvious example of "opinion." Again, for the uptenth time, do not take everything I say to the utmost point and comment on the message I am sending.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

...but, nonetheless, as the sales of Guild Wars have reached 5 millions, are you sure that Anet is not pleasing the majority of the population?

5 million purchases only shows success in selling the game, not so much as how happy the gamers are. It's not safe to come to too many conclusions based on that figure. Also note that not too long ago did ANet allow free trials for the entire GW series on the homepage of Filefront, and could contribute largely to sales.

I'd comment more but you seem to be redirecting my point elsewhere. I'll note that in the following comment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Consequently, Anet will not make any responses to these questions, and it will be rather pointless to keep demanding this.

No shit. But my point was more to inquire why ANet had decided to go down such a path, nearly contradicting their original game design (now THAT is bad.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by DivineEnvoy

Also, I have noticed from your other posts that you have moved onto World of Warcraft...

I've been playing WoW before GW, and I still play both games regularly.

Going sneaky now, eh Turtle ; )?

Turtle222 · Mar 01, 2008, 12:25 PM // 12:25

It is all a matter of a player's preference, and dedication. My view is that GW is a game that is supposed to be played casually. And when i get bored, i would either stop playing it, or switch to another game for an hour or so, then come back later.

Personally, i think that skills such as PVE ones have deteriorated the game quicker than it should have. As people were speaking about UB for example, it seemed to influence a lot of players - for good and bad. Those that want it don't want the power of it to be nerfed, and those that dont want it don't want to be group with people that do it.

Solution? Make UB only available in the Eotn campaign. That way you won't affect anyone complaining in DoA, and you're free to roam the northern part of tyria without being hassled

Angelic Upstart · Mar 01, 2008, 12:29 PM // 12:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

guild wars pvp went downhill after fac

pve has changed for the better, stop bitching

I disagree, with the pve has changed for the better statement, i think it has been dumbed down with the introduction, of pve skills, and other such bad ideas, personally i preferred GW in its pre Factions state.

Abedeus · Mar 01, 2008, 12:34 PM // 12:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

Downhill when nf release indeed.. Before Factions it was best

Nah. GW was better before Nightfall for both pve and pvp. PvE was more challenging and fun, PvP was... well, same. I remember playing as a monk in top500 guild... Fun times. No heroes in pvp, no ursans/grind in pve. Pretty much the best time in GW.

Oh, and don't talk about Fury plx. Thanks to it I stopped hoping for a super-balanced pvp, where skill > time/money. It was fun in beta, as the graphics were going to be equal to requirements (so either game would be prettier or it would require less GHz/RAM), skills were going to be balanced... But after it came and they said ,,pay or be worse in pvp'', requirements were unchanged and gameplay neither, I knew it was going to be a bad game. And hey, I wasn't wrong.

XiaoTheBlade · Mar 01, 2008, 12:47 PM // 12:47

You make too many threads

+1

Numa Pompilius · Mar 01, 2008, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart

I disagree, with the pve has changed for the better statement, i think it has been dumbed down with the introduction, of pve skills, and other such bad ideas, personally i preferred GW in its pre Factions state.

PvE has been made easy and profitable and anet is constantly catering to the farmers. For those who feel that GW is a trade simulator like EVE, not a cRPG, that's improvement.

hallomik · Mar 01, 2008, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Honestly, I don't think it has jumped. I think people get addicted, play too much, finally get sick of their own lack of self-control and look for something in the game to blame.

Those players who got tired of GW in a normal, healthy way just stopped playing and moved on. No game is entertaining forever. If you compulsively post and play even as you continue to hate the game, it's really your problem - not Guild Wars.

If you don't overdo it or are still new to the game, GW is great fun.

upier · Mar 01, 2008, 01:51 PM // 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Might as well, since we're going there now: I have a multitude of problems with UB, as seen here.

That said, everyone's game is affected in numerous ways. What may not affect you may very well affect someone else and vice versa. A good example of this is bots: They don't have any affect on my gameplay, so why are they getting banned?

They don't affect my gaming experience in the slightest. So for all I care - they could stay.
But they are against the EULA - so they are being banned.

Two different things.

While I have absolutely NO issue with why you feel that certain skills should be altered or removed for that matter - the problem at hand is that it's your opinion on what is best for the game.
And while we the players can have an opinion at the matter at hand - it doesn't matter much. And this is just made worse because of the specific of PvE - the fact that each party gets their own instance. Now we could have something to discuss of IF the game would actually be balanced with the overpowered skills in mind - so that NOT using them would result in failing. And from what I understand - this isn't the case.
And as sad as this is - your whole opinion on this matter is completely negated by Person B coming here and saying he likes Ursan (Ursan being the poster child for every insanity in GW PvE!). No explanation - no nothing! Just him stating he likes it. And that's one FOR Ursan and one AGAINST Ursan.
That's the issue - because we are dealing with opinions of people whose opinions really don't matter.

That's what I was asking for - because I can NOT think of a reason why all the (what I consider INSANELY bad) ideas ARE bad for PvE - other then stating that I FEEL (or think) that they are wrong. And because of that I can NOT justify saying that MY opinion matters more then the opinion of the person that is for the (idiotic) ideas!

cebalrai · Mar 01, 2008, 01:53 PM // 13:53

We already have a "GW isn't fun for me" thread. In fact, we have about 63 of them.

/begs mods to please close

Kusandaa · Mar 01, 2008, 02:07 PM // 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by cebalrai

We already have a "GW isn't fun for me" thread. In fact, we have about 63 of them.

/begs mods to please close

I don't know if people don't realize that when something has stopped being fun, to stop it? It's a game, it's not something vital like a job or breathing is.

"OMFG QQ I DUN HAVE ANYTHING LEF TO DO!!!11!oneone!11"...

Drop the keyboard, controller or whatever, and do something else.

Anyways, to reply to the question...

GW hasn't died on me yet. Still have plenty stuff to do. And when I won't, I'll stop playing.

Globally, I think a buncha stuff keeps killing it slowly. Some deal with it, some don't. Some QQ, some move along...

Bryant Again · Mar 01, 2008, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

*snip* That's what I was asking for - because I can NOT think of a reason why all the (what I consider INSANELY bad) ideas ARE bad for PvE - other then stating that I FEEL (or think) that they are wrong. And because of that I can NOT justify saying that MY opinion matters more then the opinion of the person that is for the (idiotic) ideas!

But then that begs the question: Why, after so long a time, does ANet now decide to add such a manuever to the game that decreases effort in a relatively drastic and speedy fashion - and still make balances to other portions of PvE to provide "fairness"?

To be a bit more on point: Opinions hold little water, that is correct. However, we attempt to do our best at having them do so by providing the best and plausible evidence we can. It's also less a matter of "I like Ursan" (I could like using bots but as stated it's against the EULA) and more "I believe Ursan is overally good for the game" - the latter which requires reasoning.

Shuuda · Mar 01, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Knightfall

PVE players should have no input on balance of skills because PVE players don't PVP.

This is correct.

Most mature PvErs realise that A) Skill balances barely effect them B) That PvP needs more attention balance wise.

Immature PvErs (the vast majority) will make a huge crybaby fest the second A-net touch their farming builds or button mash = win PvE builds.

It's not worth A-nets time to listen to the PvE majority in something that hardly concerns them.